S27E33: Star Shredded by Black Hole: A Cosmic Feast Observed

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<v SPEAKER_1>This is SpaceTime Series 27, Episode 33, for broadcast on the 15th of March 2024.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Coming up on SpaceTime, astronomers watch a star being literally torn apart by a black hole, the new physics that could be hiding in the debris of colliding neutron stars, and China says it'll have people walking on the moon by the end of the decade.

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<v SPEAKER_1>All that and more coming up on SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Welcome to SpaceTime with Stuart Gary.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Astronomers have observed the closest recorded occurrence of a star being torn apart by a supermassive black hole.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Using Assassin, the all-sky automated survey for supernovae, the authors detected a sudden surge of brightness, followed by a rapid dimming in a galaxy known as Ngc 3799, located just 160 million light years away.

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<v SPEAKER_1>While black holes destroying stars have been seen before, this is the first one observed this close using visible light.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The study's lead author William Hogan Dan from the University of Hawaii says the discovery could give astronomers a much better understanding of how supermassive black holes grow and how they collect material around them.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Follow-up observations were taken using the Asteroid Terrestrial Last Alert System or Atlas telescopes on Mauna Loa and the giant 10-meter Keck telescopes on Mauna Kea.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors then analyzed these data, determining that the burst of brightness was indeed caused by tidal disruption event.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's the term used to describe what happens when a star gets too close to a supermassive black hole and is torn to pieces by the black hole's immense gravitational forces.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The findings reported in the monthly notices of the Royal Astronomical Society suggest that black holes ripping stars apart nearby could actually be more common than previously thought.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Intense brightness produced by the star's mass feeding the black hole creates a luminous flare which all sky surveys like Assassin can observe.

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<v SPEAKER_1>While such events have been detected far away, finding one this relatively close is rare.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Events now being catalogued as Assassin 23 BD and will become a subject for further intense study.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors have already found that this tidal disruption event was unlike many others they've observed because it admitted much less energy than previous such events and its change in brightness happened about twice as fast as most tidal disruption events.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The reasons for this are still unclear.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And so, Assassin 23 BD has been placed into a unique category of objects known as low luminosity and fast tidal disruption events.

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<v SPEAKER_1>This is SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Still to come, astronomers search for new physics in the debris of colliding neutron stars.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And new computer simulations suggest that rocky Earth-like planets could come with their own Jupiter-like bodyguards.

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<v SPEAKER_1>All that and more still to come on SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Peace Scientists say neutron star mergers are likely to be a treasure trove of new physics, with implications for even determining the true nature of dark matter.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Back on August 17, 2017, the LIGO Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatories in the United States, together with the Virgo detector in Italy, observed gravitational waves coming from a collision of two neutron stars.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And for the first time, this astronomical event was not only heard in gravitational waves, but also seen in light by dozens of telescopes on the ground and in space.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Physicist Bupal Dev from Washington University in St.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Louis, used the observations of the merger, identified as Gw170817, to derive new constraints on hypothetical axion-like particles.

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<v SPEAKER_1>These particles have never been directly observed, but they do appear in many extensions of the standard model of particle physics, the foundations of science's understanding of the universe.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You see, axions and axion-like particles are the leading candidates for dark matter, the invisible substance that makes up 85% of the entire mass of our universe.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Even though we can't see dark matter and scientists have no idea what it is, they know it must exist because they can see its influence on ordinary things.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's an ordinary, so-called baryonic matter, the stuffed stars, planets, houses, trees, dogs, cats, cars, and people are made out of.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They can see how dark matter holds galaxies together as they rotate, preventing them from flinging apart.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Deb says scientists have good reason to suspect that new physics beyond the standard model might be lurking just around the corner inside the collision of neutron stars.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You see, when two neutron stars merge, a hot, dense remnant is formed for a brief period of time, and this remnant is an ideal breeding ground for exotic particle production.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Deb says the remnant gets much hotter than the individual stars for about a second before settling down to form either a bigger neutron star or collapsing entirely to form a black hole, depending on the initial masses.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But these new particles could quietly escape the debris of the collision and, far away from their source, they might decay into known particles like photons.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Deb and colleagues have shown how these escaped hypothetical particles could give rise to unique electromagnetic signals that could be detected by gamma-ray telescopes such as NASA's Fermi.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors analyzed spectral and temporal information from these hypothetical electromagnetic signals and determined that they could distinguish the signals from other known astrophysical background events.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They then used real Fermi data on Gw170817 to derive new constraints on the axion-photon coupling as a function of axion mass.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Their findings, reported in the journal Physical Review Letters, suggest that these astrophysical constraints are complementary to other studies coming from laboratory experiments, such as those probing a different region of axion parameter space.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors say that in future, scientists could use existing gamma-ray space telescopes like Fermi, or proposed gamma-ray missions like the Advanced Particle Astrophysics Telescope to take other measurements during neutron star collisions and help improve on their understanding of these hypothetical axion-like particles.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's if they exist, of course.

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<v SPEAKER_1>There's SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Still to come.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Your computer simulations suggest that rocky Earth-like planets are likely to come with their own Jovian-like bodyguards.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And Beijing says it'll have taikonauts walking on the moon before the end of the decade.

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<v SPEAKER_1>All that and more still to come on SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>A new computer study looking at exoplanetary systems has found that terrestrial Earth-like planets are often found in systems which also host Jovian-like gas giants.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The findings reported in the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics are based on simulations that track the evolution of planetary systems over several billion years.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The study's lead author, Martin Schlecker, from the Max Planck Institute, detected the arrangement of rocky, gaseous and icy planets in planetary systems around sun-like stars, saying it's apparently not random and depends only on a few initial conditions.

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<v SPEAKER_1>He says it seems planetary systems, which produce super-Earths with low water and gas content in their inner regions, very often also form a planet comparable with Jupiter on a more outer orbit.

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<v SPEAKER_1>These gas giants are thought to help keep potentially dangerous objects away from inner regions.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Schlecker calls these Jupiter-like planets cold Jupiters.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's because they grow at a distance from their central star, where water exists in the form of ice.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And he calls Earth-like planets in his simulation super-dry-Earths because they tend to be rocky worlds, larger and more massive than the Earth, which have only a very thin atmosphere and hardly any water or ice.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They populate the inner more temperate regions of a planetary system, and they're generally very similar to the Earth except for their size.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Also Schlecker points out that the Earth, despite the enormous oceans and polar regions the planet has, really only has a volume fraction for water of just 0.12%, meaning that it is really a dry planet.

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<v SPEAKER_1>His findings are based on a statistical evaluation of new simulations of a thousand planetary systems that have been evolving in protoplanetary disks around sun-like stars.

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<v SPEAKER_1>He ran the simulations for the equivalent of several billion years.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors started with random initial conditions for the masses of gas and solid matter in the systems, the size of the disk, and the position of the seed cells for the new planets.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They then tracked the life cycles of these systems as they evolved.

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<v SPEAKER_1>During the simulations, the planetary embryos all collected material and grew into proper planets.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They changed their orbits, some collided, others were ejected out from the system.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The simulated planetary systems all eventually wound up with planets of different sizes, masses, and compositions, and all on different orbits around their central stars.

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<v SPEAKER_1>These simulations were then compared to observations of real exoplanetary systems.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Schlecker says that about 30% of real planetary systems in which super-Earths are formed also appear to have a cold Jupiter.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The trouble is, these simulated planetary systems couldn't confirm this trend.

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<v SPEAKER_1>In fact, only a third of all cold Jupiters were accompanied by at least one super-Earth.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And only 10% of simulated systems that contained a super-Earth also contained a cold Jupiter.

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<v SPEAKER_1>In other words, the simulations showed that both super-Earths and cold Jupiters are only slightly more likely to occur together in a planetary system than if they appeared separately.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now, a possible explanation for this could involve the rate at which gas planets gradually migrate inwards.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Planetary formation theory seems to predict higher rates than observed, leading to an increased accumulation of gas giants on orbits of intermediate distance.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now, in the simulations, these, let's call them warm Jupiters, interfere with their inner orbits, causing more super-Earths to be either ejected or collide.

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<v SPEAKER_1>However, with a slightly lower program tendency of simulated gas planets to migrate, more super-Earths would remain, which is more comparable with real life observations.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now, based on these findings, the authors developed a scenario that could explain the formation of these quite different types of planetary systems.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They conclude that in disks with a medium amount of mass, there's simply not enough material in the inner warm regions to produce super-Earths.

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<v SPEAKER_1>At the same time, the amount is also too small in the outer parts beyond the snow line, that's where water is present in frozen form, and so the proportion of ice chunks there is quite large.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So instead the material there condenses into super-Earths with a large proportion of icers with a possible extended gas envelope.

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<v SPEAKER_1>These super-Earths then gradually migrate inwards.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now in contrast, there's usually enough material in massive disks to form both Earth-like rocky planets with poor icing gas and moderate distances from a central star, and also form cold gas giants like Jupiter beyond the snow line.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Outside the orbit of cold Jupiter, ice-rich super-Earths can form, but their migration in the radial direction is limited by the influence of the gas giants.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Therefore, they can't enter the inner warm zone.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Sound familiar?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hi there, Martin Schlecker from MPIA in Heidelberg.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I'm a PhD student with Hubert Klar and Thomas Henning, and I study exoplanet demographics using planet population synthesis.

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<v SPEAKER_3>In the work I'm presenting, we study the relations between inner super-Earth and outer giant planets that live in the same system.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And we were wondering, is there a difference in the composition of a super-Earth when there is a cold Jupiter in the system compared to when there is none?

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<v SPEAKER_3>We found that indeed there is such a difference, and it lies in the properties of the protoplanetary disk in which the planets have formed.

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<v SPEAKER_3>In a nutshell, if you have a moderately massive disk, 100 Earth masses or so, we see that primarily icy cores form just beyond the ice line.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They migrate to detectable distances, and we end up with systems of volatile-rich super-Earths of low bulk density.

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<v SPEAKER_3>No giants are formed.

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<v SPEAKER_3>If you have, on the other hand, a rather massive disk, several hundreds of Earth masses or more, you can form planetary cores further in, and they migrate inwards to become dry super-Earths.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But the conditions are also right to form giant planets further out, and they prevent icy cores from migrating inwards.

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<v SPEAKER_3>In this case, we get high-density super-Earths in the inner system, plus a distant giant planet.

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<v SPEAKER_3>From this follows a testable prediction.

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<v SPEAKER_3>If you find an inner super-Earth with a high density, you are more likely to find a cold Jupiter in the same system as well.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's the study's lead author, Martin Schlecker, from the Max Planck Institute in Germany.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And this is SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Still to come, China says it left Hagenauts walking on the Moon before the end of the decade.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And later in the Science Report, a new study has found a link between extreme heat conditions and the likelihood of having a preterm birth.

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<v SPEAKER_1>All that and more still to come on SpaceTime.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Beijing says it will achieve a manned moon landing before 2030.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It says central to their efforts is the development of a new superrocket, the Long March 10, which is being specially designed to carry spacecraft and landers into lunar orbit.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The new rocket will use combinations of liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen, and kerosene as propellants.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now alongside the Long March 10, Beijing is also continuing development work on both the Menzhu-Mans spacecraft and the Lanyu lunar lander.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Beijing's current plans involve launching two Long March 10 rockets.

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<v SPEAKER_1>One will carry the spacecraft, the other the lunar lander.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The two vehicles will rendezvous in lunar orbit.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Once in orbit, the spacecraft and lander will dock, allowing tachyonauts to transfer to the lander for the descent down to the lunar surface.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And like their American counterparts, Beijing says they are also developing a new type of spacesuit for use on the lunar surface.

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<v SPEAKER_1>China has already announced plans for the development of a joint lunar base with the Russians which will be situated near the moon's south pole.

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<v SPEAKER_1>This is Space Time.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And time now to take another brief look at some of the other stories making news in science this week with a science report.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Scientists have discovered tiny plastic fragments known as microplastics in the plaques of more than half of clogged artery patients they've examined.

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<v SPEAKER_1>A report in the New England Journal of Medicine claims the authors examined 257 patients with carotid artery disease.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's where fatty clumps called plaques form in the arteries.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They found microplastic polyurethane in the artery plaques of some 150 of the patients.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That equates to 58.4%.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Other microplastics including polyvinyl chloride were found in the plaques of a further 31 patients or 12.1%.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Using powerful microscopes, the authors could see the jagged fragments of plastic among the fatty plaques.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Following up patients for 34 months, the authors found the plastics appeared to increase the risk of heart attack, stroke, or death compared to patients who didn't have any plastics in their system.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Scientists say they have found a link between being exposed to extreme heat while pregnant and the likelihood of having a preterm birth.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Yet amazingly, the same study also showed that simply being around green spaces or greenness in general might mitigate the negative effects of the heat.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The findings reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association involved investigations of over 1.2 million babies born in Sydney.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The authors found extreme heat exposure during the third trimester had the strongest link to having a preemie.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But by looking how green the area was in which the women were living, the authors say these associations could be somewhat mitigated by living in a greener district.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Your research warns that the first half of 2024 is likely to see many areas of the world experience record-breaking average surface air temperatures because of the influence of El Nino.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The study, published in the journal Scientific Reports, says coastal areas in Asia, such as the Bay of Bengal and the South China Sea, as well as Alaska, the Caribbean Sea, and the Amazon, are especially susceptible.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They say this impending warmth heightens the risk of year-round marine heat waves and also escalates the threat of wildfires and other negative consequences in Alaska and the Amazon Basin.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Well, it seems enthusiasts have now compiled a list of what they say are the ten most haunted bodies of water in the world.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Tim Mendham from Australian Skeptic says the list ranges from a pool in northern Queensland through to the Bermuda Triangle and Loch Ness, but also includes lots of places you've never heard of.

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<v SPEAKER_2>The list of the ten most haunted bodies of water in the world is classic, what we call listicals, like an article which is based on a list.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Everyone likes a list.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, love the list.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, and so listicals appear all the time.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It's a sure way of trying to get a, you put them on your cover and you're trying to get a following.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Bodies of water in this context of the most haunted is a variable term from a pool in northern Queensland, and that's the only Australian entry to it, to the Bermuda Triangle, which is a huge stretch of water in the ocean.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Bodies of water covers a multitude of sins.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, the number 10 in this is the Devil's Pool in Australia, where in Aboriginal legend, a Romeo and Juliet type situation, and the woman leapt into the pool and said to her boyfriend, follow me, he was killed, and her ghost may be heard as you pass by the Devil's Pool.

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<v SPEAKER_2>A lot of other people have slipped in, apparently it's a bit dangerous, a lot of slippery rocks and things have fallen in and got caught underwater.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Often they don't reappear, some reappear, some die dead, and the suggestion is they're caught under rocks and things, and it is prone to flash flooding.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So you can be standing by the rocks and suddenly whoosh, you're washed in.

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<v SPEAKER_1>This is somewhere in Northern Queensland.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, Northern Queensland.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Number nine is the Bermuda Triangle, which this article says, there is no explanation for what occurs in the Devil's Triangle.

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<v SPEAKER_2>As much as scholars try to find a logical explanation for lost ships or crew, in many instances, what happened out of the sea remains a mystery.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Well, naturally if a boat disappears and they haven't told anyone, that's a mystery, but there are probably explanations for everything that happens in the Bermuda Triangle.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It's no more dangerous than any other area, considering how much traffic there is in the area and also how much illicit traffic there is in that area because there's a lot of drug smuggling and people smuggling through there.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But they say the Bermuda Triangle is one of the best haunted bodies of water.

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<v SPEAKER_2>There's another one called Chook Lagoon, C-H-U-U-K in Micronesia, which is little islands up in the Pacific.

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<v SPEAKER_2>They featured a lot in the Second World War.

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<v SPEAKER_2>This was supposed to be a fleet of Japanese ships in a lagoon.

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<v SPEAKER_2>The Americans found out, bombed it, all the ships sank.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Biggest site of wrecks in the world, the flow of scuba divers and things like to go and visit, that was in 1945.

00:20:52.595 --> 00:20:58.555
<v SPEAKER_2>And the people said they can still hear the voices of the Japanese sailors and Japanese crew on these ships after they sank.

00:20:58.575 --> 00:21:05.535
<v SPEAKER_2>And it says that the fact that there are skeletal remains at the bottom of the lagoon, it's no wonder that it's one of the most haunted bodies of water in the world.

00:21:05.635 --> 00:21:08.695
<v SPEAKER_2>I've been trying to do some research as to how long skeletons last underwater.

00:21:08.775 --> 00:21:11.115
<v SPEAKER_2>And even very cold water, they can last a fair while.

00:21:11.215 --> 00:21:14.755
<v SPEAKER_2>The bodies tend to get eaten pretty quickly, and the skeleton might last longer.

00:21:14.855 --> 00:21:18.895
<v SPEAKER_2>Even the hot water, which is this is Micronesia, so it's pretty much on the eastern side of the equator.

00:21:18.895 --> 00:21:24.235
<v SPEAKER_2>The skeleton might last a few years, some suggest decades, but since 1945, how many years is that?

00:21:24.255 --> 00:21:25.755
<v SPEAKER_2>I think it's been 80 years.

00:21:25.895 --> 00:21:28.915
<v SPEAKER_2>You're very unlikely to find anything left of a skeleton.

00:21:28.935 --> 00:21:30.155
<v SPEAKER_2>You might find little bits and pieces.

00:21:30.175 --> 00:21:33.895
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're an archaeologist or a paleontologist or something, you might find something of interest.

00:21:33.915 --> 00:21:40.015
<v SPEAKER_2>But generally speaking, you're not going to go down to these wrecks and find bodies, skeletons with their skulls with their mouths open, looking really scary.

00:21:40.195 --> 00:21:45.835
<v SPEAKER_2>Animals' high current composition of the water is going to sort of take away the skeletons pretty much entirely.

00:21:45.855 --> 00:21:50.195
<v SPEAKER_2>So making a statement like that is as bad as saying that the Big Minute Triangle hasn't been solved.

00:21:50.215 --> 00:21:50.695
<v SPEAKER_2>It has been.

00:21:51.215 --> 00:21:55.515
<v SPEAKER_2>White Rock Lake in Texas is another place that can't be used for swimming again.

00:21:55.535 --> 00:21:57.615
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like the Devil's Pool in Queensland.

00:21:57.635 --> 00:22:03.035
<v SPEAKER_2>They've sort of fenced it off because it's a dangerous bit of water that doesn't stop people going in and some people will drown.

00:22:03.055 --> 00:22:11.375
<v SPEAKER_2>Suppose a young woman dressed in white pawns this body of water and people have said she's still around and making things uncomfortable for people including soaked from head to foot.

00:22:11.495 --> 00:22:13.775
<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, it's like the Wacoast Parkway Ghost.

00:22:13.795 --> 00:22:15.135
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like the Wacoast Parkway Ghost.

00:22:15.155 --> 00:22:18.935
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like the Central Coast Ghost up near the top of Terrigal.

00:22:19.075 --> 00:22:20.195
<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, there's a new one.

00:22:20.215 --> 00:22:21.455
<v SPEAKER_1>There's one at the Central Coast.

00:22:21.475 --> 00:22:22.515
<v SPEAKER_2>That's been around for ages.

00:22:22.655 --> 00:22:23.055
<v SPEAKER_1>Okay.

00:22:23.055 --> 00:22:29.635
<v SPEAKER_1>I heard from you the other day, apparently there's a ghost that haunts Macquarie Fields railway station in Sydney South.

00:22:29.655 --> 00:22:30.795
<v SPEAKER_2>Is it hopping the back of cars?

00:22:30.995 --> 00:22:36.955
<v SPEAKER_1>No, it sits between the railroad tracks after the last train of the night has departed.

00:22:38.775 --> 00:22:40.075
<v SPEAKER_1>Not in a carriage.

00:22:40.095 --> 00:22:40.735
<v SPEAKER_2>On the tracks.

00:22:40.755 --> 00:22:41.695
<v SPEAKER_1>On the tracks itself.

00:22:41.795 --> 00:22:47.415
<v SPEAKER_2>This white rock lake woman, smoking wet because she's been in the water, obviously standing by the side of the road saying, can you give me a lift?

00:22:47.435 --> 00:22:49.295
<v SPEAKER_2>People stop to give her a lift and say, where do you want to go?

00:22:49.315 --> 00:22:51.515
<v SPEAKER_2>And they turn around and she's not there anymore, but the seat's wet.

00:22:51.835 --> 00:22:52.775
<v SPEAKER_2>As the story goes.

00:22:52.975 --> 00:22:56.795
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's like a lot of urban myth, the vanishing hitchhiker and all this sort of stuff.

00:22:56.815 --> 00:22:59.055
<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, and the sound of tapping on them.

00:22:59.075 --> 00:23:04.555
<v SPEAKER_2>Tapping on the roof is the killer on the roof, smashing the head of the boyfriend on the roof of the car.

00:23:04.575 --> 00:23:04.815
<v SPEAKER_2>Yep.

00:23:04.975 --> 00:23:08.795
<v SPEAKER_2>Manchac Swamp in Louisiana, again with Native Americans' involvement.

00:23:08.815 --> 00:23:09.835
<v SPEAKER_2>Someone is drowned there.

00:23:09.915 --> 00:23:12.055
<v SPEAKER_2>Julia Brown is hanging around the water there.

00:23:12.095 --> 00:23:15.375
<v SPEAKER_2>A hurricane went through it and destroyed town on the day of her funeral.

00:23:15.395 --> 00:23:17.815
<v SPEAKER_2>And therefore the people have regarded it as cursed.

00:23:18.135 --> 00:23:19.375
<v SPEAKER_2>Gardner Lake, Connecticut.

00:23:19.395 --> 00:23:20.395
<v SPEAKER_2>It's such a weird one.

00:23:20.535 --> 00:23:25.095
<v SPEAKER_2>People on one side of the lake decided they wanted to move their house across to the other side of the lake.

00:23:25.115 --> 00:23:25.755
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm not quite sure.

00:23:26.395 --> 00:23:26.855
<v SPEAKER_2>Who knows?

00:23:26.855 --> 00:23:29.535
<v SPEAKER_2>So in typical American innovative style.

00:23:31.235 --> 00:23:34.775
<v SPEAKER_2>They put it about and tried to push it across the frozen lake during winter, obviously.

00:23:35.155 --> 00:23:36.855
<v SPEAKER_2>And they thought that's a quick way of getting it across.

00:23:38.275 --> 00:23:39.675
<v SPEAKER_2>Unfortunately, surprise, surprise.

00:23:39.695 --> 00:23:40.835
<v SPEAKER_2>It broke through the ice.

00:23:41.795 --> 00:23:42.095
<v SPEAKER_2>No.

00:23:42.255 --> 00:23:43.155
<v SPEAKER_2>To carry a house.

00:23:43.275 --> 00:23:43.575
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

00:23:44.615 --> 00:23:48.115
<v SPEAKER_2>And they broke through and the thing fell to the bottom of the water and there's the piano.

00:23:48.135 --> 00:23:49.395
<v SPEAKER_2>The furniture was all in the house.

00:23:49.415 --> 00:23:49.975
<v SPEAKER_2>The story goes.

00:23:49.995 --> 00:23:51.695
<v SPEAKER_2>I have seen photos of the house sinking, actually.

00:23:51.715 --> 00:23:53.035
<v SPEAKER_2>Obviously, it didn't sink very quickly.

00:23:53.055 --> 00:23:54.715
<v SPEAKER_2>People could get out there with a camera.

00:23:54.735 --> 00:23:56.655
<v SPEAKER_1>You think it'd be made of wood so it would float.

00:23:56.675 --> 00:23:57.595
<v SPEAKER_2>Maybe it didn't sink entirely.

00:23:57.875 --> 00:24:00.515
<v SPEAKER_2>But that hasn't stopped a good story from being made about it.

00:24:00.675 --> 00:24:01.355
<v SPEAKER_1>And they can what?

00:24:01.375 --> 00:24:03.315
<v SPEAKER_1>They can still hear the piano playing at night?

00:24:03.335 --> 00:24:04.935
<v SPEAKER_2>They can still hear the piano playing, yeah.

00:24:05.015 --> 00:24:05.835
<v SPEAKER_2>It's cool, isn't it?

00:24:05.855 --> 00:24:06.275
<v SPEAKER_2>I like that one.

00:24:06.295 --> 00:24:06.615
<v SPEAKER_2>Okay.

00:24:06.715 --> 00:24:08.295
<v SPEAKER_2>Manzanita Beach in Oregon.

00:24:08.315 --> 00:24:11.035
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know how well Oregon is sort of set up for beaches, but never mind.

00:24:11.055 --> 00:24:13.295
<v SPEAKER_1>Straight for Bigfoot or is that Big Feet?

00:24:13.315 --> 00:24:13.675
<v SPEAKER_2>Bigfoots.

00:24:13.795 --> 00:24:14.695
<v SPEAKER_1>Bigfoots, yeah.

00:24:15.515 --> 00:24:16.795
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, Sasquatches.

00:24:16.855 --> 00:24:18.155
<v SPEAKER_2>Manzanita Beach in Oregon.

00:24:18.295 --> 00:24:22.095
<v SPEAKER_2>Shipwrecked sailors, Spanish sailors doing up that side of the American coast.

00:24:22.095 --> 00:24:24.795
<v SPEAKER_2>Shipwrecked, hiding their treasure because they had a lot of treasure on the boat.

00:24:24.815 --> 00:24:26.975
<v SPEAKER_2>So they carried it up the shore, killed someone.

00:24:27.035 --> 00:24:32.975
<v SPEAKER_2>They buried the treasure and put the body on top of it to try and discourage anyone trying to rob their treasure and disappeared.

00:24:32.995 --> 00:24:35.075
<v SPEAKER_2>So basically, the treasure is supposed to be still there.

00:24:35.095 --> 00:24:39.975
<v SPEAKER_2>People find piles of rocks stacked down on the beach in the dawn and no one seems to put it up there.

00:24:39.995 --> 00:24:45.695
<v SPEAKER_2>Number three is Okiku's World Japan, which is a world that someone who didn't like being hooked up with someone she didn't particularly didn't like.

00:24:45.715 --> 00:24:48.015
<v SPEAKER_2>So she threw herself down a well and her voice could be heard.

00:24:48.175 --> 00:24:49.075
<v SPEAKER_1>I can relate to that.

00:24:49.715 --> 00:24:50.715
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, I can relate to that too.

00:24:51.195 --> 00:25:05.575
<v SPEAKER_2>You know, then the samurai came out and then a priest came out later on, this was a long time ago, supposedly, came out from any sort of quiet and her cried because there's something to do with valuable plates and they're going to blame it on this girl or something like that.

00:25:05.775 --> 00:25:06.295
<v SPEAKER_2>Something weird.

00:25:06.755 --> 00:25:07.755
<v SPEAKER_2>Number two, Loch Ness.

00:25:08.015 --> 00:25:11.035
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, I have to point out that I don't think Loch Ness is haunted.

00:25:11.355 --> 00:25:17.835
<v SPEAKER_2>Put aside Nessie, the Loch Ness monster, for which there is no convincing evidence, what's been for who you are, I suppose, if it's convincing or not.

00:25:17.895 --> 00:25:19.695
<v SPEAKER_1>See, I would have thought this would have been number one.

00:25:19.715 --> 00:25:21.375
<v SPEAKER_2>I would have thought it would be pretty good, actually.

00:25:21.435 --> 00:25:30.075
<v SPEAKER_2>But the thing is that Loch Ness, some people suggest that Nessie is a paranormal beast, not a real thing, and that would be sort of haunted-ish, that it's not really haunted.

00:25:30.095 --> 00:25:33.095
<v SPEAKER_2>It's more just phenomena and a strange creature.

00:25:33.095 --> 00:25:37.015
<v SPEAKER_2>I think most people who are saying there's a monster in the lake think it's a real creature.

00:25:37.155 --> 00:25:41.135
<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, they're thinking cryptozoology as opposed to spirituality.

00:25:41.295 --> 00:25:42.155
<v SPEAKER_2>I think so, yeah.

00:25:42.215 --> 00:25:43.535
<v SPEAKER_2>A real thing, not a ghost.

00:25:43.555 --> 00:25:45.295
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know if that one qualifies.

00:25:45.315 --> 00:25:48.415
<v SPEAKER_1>A real made-up thing, not an imaginative thing.

00:25:49.435 --> 00:25:54.435
<v SPEAKER_2>I think this is in the list and number two because it's a well-known bit of water, not because necessarily it's haunted.

00:25:54.515 --> 00:25:56.675
<v SPEAKER_2>So we will put that one to one side and go to number one.

00:25:56.695 --> 00:25:57.495
<v SPEAKER_1>What about the castle there?

00:25:57.515 --> 00:25:58.555
<v SPEAKER_1>Is that supposed to be haunted?

00:25:58.575 --> 00:25:59.595
<v SPEAKER_1>It wasn't the castle?

00:26:02.315 --> 00:26:02.715
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know.

00:26:02.735 --> 00:26:03.395
<v SPEAKER_2>It's pretty open.

00:26:03.395 --> 00:26:04.255
<v SPEAKER_2>It's pretty much a ruin.

00:26:04.275 --> 00:26:07.155
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know if there's a place for a ghost to hang around there, actually.

00:26:07.175 --> 00:26:10.355
<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, there'd be spirits there, but they're of the type that used to be in bottles.

00:26:10.675 --> 00:26:10.975
<v SPEAKER_2>Uh-huh.

00:26:10.995 --> 00:26:12.215
<v SPEAKER_2>Because it is in Scotland.

00:26:12.215 --> 00:26:13.675
<v SPEAKER_2>They're bound to be, sort of.

00:26:13.895 --> 00:26:18.075
<v SPEAKER_2>There's another monster down in Loch Morag, which is down the road from Loch Ness.

00:26:18.095 --> 00:26:18.955
<v SPEAKER_1>Yes, yes.

00:26:19.075 --> 00:26:20.695
<v SPEAKER_1>Most Scottish lochs have a creature in them.

00:26:20.715 --> 00:26:21.055
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

00:26:21.075 --> 00:26:23.375
<v SPEAKER_2>Don't people ignore that, because, you know, Loch Ness is more famous.

00:26:23.395 --> 00:26:24.835
<v SPEAKER_1>Well, that's the one you want to go to, yeah.

00:26:24.835 --> 00:26:26.795
<v SPEAKER_2>They go to Loch Ness and don't see it there.

00:26:26.895 --> 00:26:27.195
<v SPEAKER_2>Okay.

00:26:27.215 --> 00:26:30.915
<v SPEAKER_2>Number one, Lower Yellowstone Falls in Wyoming.

00:26:30.995 --> 00:26:35.855
<v SPEAKER_2>As you can see, a lot of these things are in America, so the international component doesn't get a big look in.

00:26:35.975 --> 00:26:43.915
<v SPEAKER_2>So, anyway, the group of explorers being led through Yellowstone, not the National Park, it wasn't them, by an Indian Native American guide.

00:26:44.055 --> 00:26:45.455
<v SPEAKER_2>They're looking, trying to find gold.

00:26:45.575 --> 00:27:00.515
<v SPEAKER_2>Local Native Americans decide to come to the camp and they spread all their horses, and when the explorers wake up and find the horses gone, they then start looking for the tribe of people who stole their horses, and they see them at the top of the falls, these lower Yellowstone Falls, and they're trying to cross.

00:27:00.675 --> 00:27:05.235
<v SPEAKER_2>However, the current proved too strong, and they were unable to cross on their raft.

00:27:05.255 --> 00:27:08.835
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know why they're crossing on a raft with horses at the top of a waterfall.

00:27:08.855 --> 00:27:10.335
<v SPEAKER_2>It doesn't seem very likely.

00:27:10.355 --> 00:27:13.315
<v SPEAKER_2>You'd go further across, wouldn't you, when it slows down a bit anyway?

00:27:13.855 --> 00:27:20.795
<v SPEAKER_2>And they fall off, and they obviously were never heard from again, but they were apparently, well, they were heard, but I was singing their death songs as they fell down.

00:27:20.835 --> 00:27:23.775
<v SPEAKER_1>You're missing the Lorelei on the Ryan River.

00:27:23.795 --> 00:27:27.355
<v SPEAKER_1>There are so many that are missing because of this American-centric listicle.

00:27:27.355 --> 00:27:30.755
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, the American-centric listicle is the common genre.

00:27:30.815 --> 00:27:35.055
<v SPEAKER_2>I've seen the most haunted hotels in the world, and about one of them is not in America.

00:27:35.275 --> 00:27:36.415
<v SPEAKER_2>And you think, oh, God.

00:27:36.675 --> 00:27:38.395
<v SPEAKER_1>A lot of them have exactly the same theme.

00:27:38.895 --> 00:27:42.895
<v SPEAKER_1>A girl or people die there, and their spirit haunts the place.

00:27:42.915 --> 00:27:43.675
<v SPEAKER_1>That seems to be it.

00:27:43.755 --> 00:27:45.595
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, it's the Little Mermaid, scary.

00:27:45.615 --> 00:27:48.775
<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, that's Tim Endam from Australian Skeptics.

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.180
<v SPEAKER_1>And that's the show for now.

00:28:06.780 --> 00:28:25.620
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00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:33.820
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00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:53.640
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00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:57.800
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00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:09.820
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00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.600
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00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:17.360
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00:29:17.780 --> 00:29:31.120
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00:29:31.820 --> 00:29:34.340
<v SPEAKER_3>You've been listening to Space Time with Stuart Gary.

00:29:34.940 --> 00:29:38.680
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